Former Trump White House staffers call possible second term a threat to American democracy

Three women who served under the former president Donald TrumpThe White House is now warning of a possible second Trump term, with one saying it could mean “the end of American democracy as we know it.”

For the first time, former White House communications director Alyssa Farah Griffin, former White House deputy press secretary Sarah Matthews and former White House aide Cassidy Hutchinson spoke spoke with ABC News “This Week” co-anchor Jonathan Karl to discuss their role in speaking out against Trump in the wake of January 6.

“Fundamentally, a second Trump term could mean the end of American democracy as we know it, and I don’t say that lightly,” Karl Griffin, now co-host of ABC’s “The View,” told Karl Griffin. , accusing the former president. of having made “historic and unconstitutional” efforts to try to “steal democratic elections” and stay in power.

“I’m very concerned about what the term would actually look like,” Griffin continued.

“We don’t need to speculate about what a second Trump term would want because we’ve already seen it unfold,” Matthews told Karl.

“To this day, he still insists that he believes the election was stolen and fraudulent,” Matthews said, saying Trump’s rhetoric has become “increasingly erratic,” citing his threats to circumvent the Constitution and its suggestions aimed at militarizing justice. Department to retaliate against its political enemies.

Hutchinson, who was a top aide to Trump’s last White House chief of staff, Mark Meadows — and who remained at Trump’s side the longest after the 2020 election — said much of the population does not recognize its mistakes and does not work to continue. to improve our country. »

“This is a fundamental election to continue to safeguard our institutions and our constitutional republic,” Hutchinson said. “We are extremely fragile as a country, and so is the democratic experiment.”

It was the first time that Griffin, Matthews and Hutchinson, all of whom cooperated with the House select committee that investigated the attack on the Capitol by Trump supporters on Jan. 6, 2021, came together to share their experiences.

Griffin, who resigned from his White House post on December 4, 2020, participated in a private, closed-door meeting with the Committee of January 6, while Matthews, who resigned on January 6, 2021, and Hutchinson, who left the White House at the end of the Trump presidency, testified publicly in televised hearings in addition to closed-door testimony. Most of the transcripts of the committee’s closed-door interviews with witnesses on January 6 were ultimately released.

Hutchinson’s explosive testimony played a major role in the Jan. 6 House investigation, providing detailed accounts of Trump’s state of mind regarding the 2020 election that he lost as well as the events before, during and after the January 6 insurrection.

Trump has denied any wrongdoing regarding January 6.

The Trump campaign responded to the ABC interview with a statement calling the women “ungrateful crooks” who “took advantage of the opportunities given to them by President Trump” and became “full-fledged Judases.”

Put politics aside to choose democracy, they say

“Our sole focus, if he is the nominee, must be to ensure that he is not re-elected president next November,” said Hutchinson, once a staunch Trump defender who has become a frequent target of attacks from his part and his allies. since his testimony before the House committee on January 6.

That is, they said, even if it means electing a Democrat as president, which is a disappointing and upsetting thought for Matthews, who has long supported Republicans.

“I’ve never voted for a Democrat in my life, but I think in the next election I would put politics aside and choose democracy,” Matthews told Karl, saying she still hopes Trump can be defeated in the Republican primary, but the clock is ticking.

And because the former president made “retribution” a major theme of his re-election campaign, Hutchinson, Matthews and Griffin, who have already been harassed by Trump and his supporters, say they fear the consequences of his return to power.

“What scares me as much as (Trump) and his retaliation is the almost cult-like following he has toward his most die-hard supporters,” Griffin said. “The threats, the harassment, the death threats that you receive when he targets you – and he targets deliberately – are truly horrific and have no place in our American discourse.”

“A lot of these people won’t come forward even if they privately acknowledge that Trump is unfit or privately acknowledge that the 2020 election was not stolen,” Matthews added of his fellow Republicans. “It’s because they know they will be threatened with death, their families will be threatened with death.”

Hutchinson referenced one of Trump’s most controversial recent comments: “The fact that he feels he has to turn to the role of dictator alone shows that he is a weak and weak man.” »

During a town hall-style interview with Fox News host Sean Hannity earlier this month, Trump said he would not be a dictator.except the first day” Trump has since defended the comment as a joke and said he would not be a dictator, but he nonetheless faced backlash for repeating rhetoric that mirrored the words of past authoritarian leaders.

Griffin noted that former Vice President Pence “saw more than any of us” during his time in office, and called on him to speak out more publicly against Trump.

“I just hope that right now, when we’re less than a year away… that he would think about speaking out more forcefully about the ineptitude of Donald Trump,” Griffin said. “It’s not about politics. It’s not about politics. It’s about the character of the man who is the leader of the free world.”

Reliving January 6 and the House investigation

Matthews and Hutchinson, who both lived through the Jan. 6 insurrection as White House officials, spoke to Karl about how they dealt with their conflicting emotions.

Matthews said she resigned from her position on the night of Jan. 6 because she couldn’t live with herself knowing she would have to defend the insurrection.

“I couldn’t walk through the doors of the White House the day after January 6, especially as a spokesperson, because I knew I would have to defend that and defend what we saw that day and his failure to comply. duty,” Matthews said. “And I couldn’t live with myself. That’s why I made that decision and then testified before the committee on January 6.”

Hutchinson, who was still loyal to the administration at the time, said she was upset to see Griffin on television the next day criticizing Trump.

“I’ve always felt this sense of loyalty to the administration, and I don’t say that with pride,” Hutchinson said. “And I had – it was sort of the beginning when I had this – these mixed emotions about how to actually process what happened that day and how to deal with my own involvement in that and what I could do moving forward.”

“I was really angry with Alyssa on the one hand, because we were very, very close… And there was also the side of me where I was really proud and somewhat envious of the courage that you showed” , Hutchinson continued.

Both Matthews and Hutchinson credited Griffin with connecting them with GOP officials. Liz Cheney and Adam Kinzinger, the two GOP members of the Jan. 6 committee, which ultimately led to their televised public testimony before the panel.

“Everything was secret,” Matthews recalls of his first meeting with Cheney and Griffin in a “small basement office” on Capitol Hill. “We sat there for probably what, four or five hours or something. And I just told him my favorite memory of the events leading up to January 6 and following the election.”

Hutchinson said she was still on Mar-a-Lago’s payroll when she was contacted by Griffin about speaking to the Jan. 6 committee.

“I was at this really awkward point in my so-called journey through all of this where I really wanted to come forward,” Hutchinson said. “But I also had concerns: I didn’t know if there would be lasting implications.”

Asked about the role of women in the fight against Trump after the Jan. 6 insurrection, Griffin highlighted what she calls the courage that Hutchinson and Matthews — who are both still in their 20s — showed in stepping forward .

“For some reason, in times that demand it, women tend to show astonishing courage, and I thank those women who are younger than me, who did not have such senior titles and who came forward,” Griffin said.

“I think there are a lot of people who saw dangerous things, but they calculated that he could very well be president again,” she continued. “Not only do they not want to be on his bad side, but they also want to preserve themselves for future opportunities with him.”

“For me, it basically came down to: I want to be able to look my future children in the eye and say that when history called for it, I did the right thing and I had the courage to do it,” Griffin said. “That means more to me than any future, you know, job or power structure that might exist if he’s president again.”

ABC News’ Alexandra Hutzler contributed to this report.